Interview - Sunrise

NATALIE BARR: This week's inquest into the shocking death of Lilie James has uncovered a terrifying, yet common pattern of aggression and coercive control. Her killer, an obsessed ex partner, stalked Lilie and tried to control her before eventually planning her murder in cold blooded detail. 

This is the moment he shopped for his weapon, he shopped for it, a hammer from the hardware store, and this is the moment he practised storming the bathroom where Lilie would eventually be killed. 

Now her parents say something needs to change. Lilie's mum, Peta, says if parents don't teach their sons to respect a woman's choices, we might be setting our daughters up for a failure. 

Joining us now is Education Minister, Jason Clare, and Deputy Opposition Leader, Sussan Ley. Good morning to both of you. 

JASON CLARE, MINISTER FOR EDUCATION: Good morning. 

BARR: Jason, an expert told us this week that domestic violence often starts with coercive control, boys exerting control over girls. What are we doing in our schools, in Australian schools to teach this? 

CLARE: You can't imagine what Lilie's Mum and her Dad are going through at the moment. The sort of mind numbing pain that they're experiencing. We got a little bit of an insight into that yesterday. Lilie was an innocent young woman whose life was taken away from her by this monster. 

I think the key point we need to make is that this is not just the act of one monster. One in five women over the age of 15 are the victims of some type of sexual violence, and in answer to your question, if we're serious about this, then it does involve education in our schools, not just at high school, but at primary school as well. 

Last year we started the roll out of a five year program which is worth about $77 million investing in teaching our boys about respect and about consent, about coercive control, about stopping at the start the sort of things that led to this murder. 

BARR: Because we are in week 12 of the year and 14 women and four children have already lost their lives. So whatever we're doing up until this point, it's not working, is it? 

CLARE: No, it's not. And part of it is what we do in our schools, part of it is what we do as mums and dads, part of it is what men do, talking to other men, calling out comments and actions by other men when we see the wrong thing being said. 

Incidentally, the action that we're taking to ban access to social media for young people under the age of 16 is important too, because it means that fewer boys are going to get access to that cesspit where you see the sort of horrible things that are said about women. 

BARR: Yeah, you're right on that, because it's a whole community attitude. Sussan, I want to go to you and talk about older people; it's not just young boys here, it is a community attitude. 

A senior school principal said at the time of this murder words to the effect of, "This type of thing doesn't happen as often as it does in other countries" and as we've seen roughly one woman a week, many years, is killed by domestic violence. 

He then said this murderer, Thijssen, wasn't a monster, he committed a monstrous act which was in complete contradiction to how everyone knew him. Again that was untrue. An ex girlfriend said he stalked her, he trapped her, he scared her. 

Do we need to also look at educating our older people who are obviously getting this wrong too? 

SUSSAN LEY: Everybody needs to pay attention, and no one could ignore the heartbreaking words from Lilie's mother, and as a mother, I just had no words, Nat, it was just so, so incredibly painful to listen to. 

There was a tragic chain of events that ended up with this monstrous act, and we have to work out as a society, and yes, everybody, how to break that chain, and it's a job that's too big for teachers, for schools, we have to bring in parents, we have to bring community groups, footy groups, faith groups, everybody. 

I want to commend the work of the Movember Foundation doing some pretty incredible stuff around rebuilding what masculinity means, also Chanel Contos and Teach Us Consent. There are terrific materials, groups and information out there. 

But ultimately we lost this beautiful young woman, and we have to work out how we break that chain of violence. So we also bring men and boys into the conversation, because men and boys are not a problem to be solved, they need to be brought into the solution. 

So let's, as you've indicated, as others have, make this something that everyone everywhere participates in. 

BARR: Yep. Exactly. And like Jason said, it starts at primary school, and then into high school, and the language we all use, and the dads use and maybe we can get somewhere.

CLARE: Yep. 

BARR: We thank you both for joining us this week. We'll see you next week.