Interview - Sunrise

NATALIE BARR: Australia's labour market has remained strong despite a slowing economy as new data reveals unemployment has remained steady at 4.2 per cent. The latest ABS figures reveal more than 47,000 new jobs were recorded last month. Part-time positions are up by 50,000, but it's full-time jobs that fell by more than 3,000. 

The figures confirm a trend identified by the Reserve Bank that bosses aren't sacking workers in big numbers, instead they're cutting back their hours to save money. 

For their take let's bring in Education Minister Jason Clare and Deputy Opposition Leader Sussan Ley. Good morning to both of you. 

So the unemployment figures have barely moved, Jason, full‑time jobs are falling though. People are having to really take up a few part‑time jobs to take up the slack, it's got to be a worry. 

MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, JASON CLARE: There’s still a lot of people out there doing it tough.  Unemployment's low, it's lower than most comparable advanced economies around the world, but that doesn't mean that a lot of Australians aren't doing it tough. They are. That's why the tax cuts are important, that's why wage increases are important, but it's also why the payments that we're providing to help with electricity bills and with rent assistance that goes up again today are important as well, to help Australians that are doing it tough. 

BARR: What would you be doing, Sussan?

SUSSAN LEY: Well, Nat, I'm worried that behind these figures we've got Australians who are taking on extra jobs to pay the bills, and that's unfortunate because they're finding they don't have enough money in the weekly pay packet to fill up the groceries, pay for the rising costs of insurance. And the thing is with this government not having a proper economic plan this is one of the things we're seeing, and other countries are bringing down their interest rates. That's the critical difference between Australia and the rest of the world here. While other countries' interest rates are coming down, ours are not, and unfortunately Australian families are doing it tough. 

BARR: They are. Housing is a big issue too. Let's talk immigration, Jason, because those figures are out at the moment. Your immigration target started at about 315,000, that was in last May's budget. It was revised up to 375,000, that was in December. You've blown it, it's 388,000. That was only till March this year. It's going to be over 400,000. Your promise is to get it down to 260 by June next year. How are you going do it? 

CLARE: Well immigration is too high, we've got to bring it down. 

BARR: How? 

CLARE: Part of how we do it is by putting a cap on the number of international students. That's what I'm doing. I've introduced legislation into the Parliament to put a lid on that, to put a cap on the number of international students. 

The Opposition still haven't said if they'll vote for it or not. I'm hopeful that Sussan might be able to tell us today if the Opposition will vote for that legislation that's in the Parliament right now. 

BARR: So are you ‑ is that going to get your numbers down? Because if you are this high and you guys have been revising it up all this time, you've got a lot to bring it down? People can't find a house.

CLARE: It's one part of it. There's three parts to this number. One part is international students. We've seen students come back very quickly after the pandemic. Part of it is backpackers, and part of it is people overstaying their visas. They're the three big parts of this number. 

I'm in control of international students. We don't have a cap, a power in legislation to put a cap on the number of international students at the moment. I want to put that cap in place so that we can bring the number of international students back to pre‑pandemic levels. 

As I said, the legislation is in the Parliament now and I'm hoping that the Liberal Party will back it. 

BARR: Okay. Sussan, are you going to back it?

LEY: Well, the issue here, Nat, is not what's in the Parliament now but what the government said they would do about migration numbers, and we're now going to hit 400,000 migrants this year, second year in a row maybe 500,000. So the government's not doing what they said they would do with the overall migration number. So if you're struggling to find a house or your rents are going up, this is why. 

My question to the Prime Minister is you're bringing in all these people, Prime Minister, where are they going to live? And, you know, Jason's in charge of international students, but in charge of skills and housing are Andrew Giles and Clare O'Neil, and they thought it was important to bring in yoga instructors on skilled special visas, not the tradies that we need to build our houses. So people are very disappointed, Nat, that the government just is all over the place on this. And not where they said they would be, not sticking to their undertakings. 

BARR: You know how many people are repeating that around Australia, Jason? 

CLARE: What Australians want is not a sook, they want solutions. They want us to work together on this. 

BARR: Exactly. They want to know why we haven't got enough tradies to build houses, and they want to know why we're bringing in so many people into this country when there's not enough houses to live.

CLARE: Yeah, well they want us to vote for the legislation to put a cap on the number of international students, so they want us to work together on that. 

BARR: That's only a portion though, isn't it?

CLARE: But they also want us to build more houses. We need more tradies to build them, but we also need the opposition to vote for legislation to help us build more houses rather than blocking it in the Parliament like you're doing. 

BARR: Okay. Well, it's a start. Are you going to vote for that? 

LEY: Look, zero houses built. There's just not a plan. 

BARR: No, but the cap on the students for a start. 

LEY: Well, we're working through that. The Senate is sitting this week. The House of Reps has a week up, so we'll see where that lands. There needs to be a very careful discussion about the effect that has on different communities and different sectors. But remember migration is an overall number, as Jason said, with different components, and overall, the Government has to get this right, because housing for Australians is critical and too many young Australians cannot find that pathway into their first home. 

BARR: You're right, but look, that's his portfolio and that's what he's doing. So you're looking at that? 

LEY: The Government and the Opposition are talking about that this week, and I know that there's more Senate hearings, which is a way of getting everybody out there to discuss what a piece of legislation does in their particular corner of activity, and we're working through that now. 

BARR: On the cap on students? 

LEY: It's important to do that. It's important to do that properly, it's important to do that in a consultative way. Let's see where it lands. Right now, we've got data that tells us these migration numbers are way too high. 

BARR: Yep. 

LEY: Higher than the government said they would be and causing real pain for Australians looking for homes. 

BARR: Yep, exactly. We've got to start somewhere. Thank you very much both of you, we'll see you next week.