Interview - Sky News with Kieran Gilbert

KIERAN GILBERT: Let's turn our attention to education. And the nation's education ministers will hold their first gathering tomorrow since the Federal Election, that is. I want to go live to Adelaide. The Education Minister, Jason Clare, joins me.

A big part of the lead-up to the election. I know that you and the Prime Minister were focusing on the deals done with the states on education funding arrangements, those Gonski reforms, as they're known. But you've said you want it tied to reform, what sort of thing are you talking about on that?

JASON CLARE, MINISTER FOR EDUCATION: Yeah, it's important to make the point, this isn't a blank cheque. The agreement that we’ve struck with every State and Territory over the course of the last 12 months represents the biggest extra investment by the Australian Government in our public schools ever. Something like an extra $16.5 dollars billion invested in our public schools over the next decade to finish the work that David Gonski started. But, I've been at pains to make the point that it's not a blank cheque, that we want to tie this funding to real practical reforms, really to make sure that more kids finish high school. 

Over the last decade, we've seen a drop in the number of kids finishing high school, particularly in public schools, from about 83 per cent down to 73 per cent, and we need to turn that around. And that requires reform not just at high school, but at primary school. One of the things we want to do is roll out a phonics check or a literacy check for kids in Year One, and that's already underway, a lot of states are doing it this year, the others will roll it out from next year and that's a 10 or a 15 minute check. It's not a test, it's not like NAPLAN, but it's a tool for teachers to help, to make sure that they know where the children in their classroom are at and whether they need more support. And the next cab off the rank is a numeracy check, a similar sort of check, a tool for teachers to make sure that children are up to speed, where they need to be in Year One when it comes to numeracy adding up and counting. 

Now, New South Wales have rolled out a pilot this year for about 169 schools of a check they've developed and they'll roll that out across all public schools next year. We're going to have a chat tomorrow about whether other states might be willing to pick that up as well next year.

GILBERT: One of the other things I know that's been out and I'm very interested, I think a lot of parents will be very keenly awaiting this bullying review. Give us an update on where that's at. Will that be before the ministers tomorrow? Because, as you well know, this is something that everyone's ultra sensitive about, particularly when you're talking about social media these days and all the risks inherent with that.

CLARE: I think that's the big difference between what bullying was like when we were kids at school and what it's like now. Bullying is cruel. It doesn't just leave physical scars, it can leave invisible scars that can last a lifetime. And we're not just talking now about push and shove in the playground or stealing someone else's lunch money. At its most insidious, we're talking about people using AI and deepfakes where they might take a photograph of a friend at school or someone at school, cut and paste their face and put it on the naked body of someone else and then splash that across the internet. And the impact of that can be extraordinarily harmful. We've seen recent examples of this applied to fellow students, but also to teachers and this review about what we do to tackle bullying in our schools needs to look at that as well as what happens actually in the school grounds. We're never going to stamp it out entirely, but what this is about is making sure that where we can prevent it, we do. And what are the right responses for schools where there's evidence of this sort of bullying happening.

GILBERT: And on the issue of childcare centres, there have been reports recently about the mistreatment of children in care. I know that personal phones, for example, have been banned from childcare centres. What other reforms would you look at now off the back of this New South Wales response, led by New South Wales? But are you wanting to make it national and what other things you're putting in place to ensure kids in childcare are receiving the protection they need as well?

CLARE: Yeah, this is really serious. There's more than a million families who've got their kids in childcare and early education at the moment. And the number one priority is to make sure that their children are safe. This is personal for me. I'm one of those parents who have my children in early education and care.

In response to the arrest of that serial paedophile in Queensland a couple of years ago, we introduced some significant changes, including the banning of personal phones in childcare centres and beefing up, toughening up mandatory reporting, making that a requirement within 24 hours of where a serious event has occurred. But Four Corners had a report earlier this year which exposed some pretty terrifying and horrific examples of abuse in centres. In response to that, we announced that we'll introduce legislation into the Federal Parliament that's designed specifically to basically pull the money away from centres that aren't up to quality standards or stop them from expanding, but also stop some of the bad actors that might be failing kids in childcare from then moving to another part of the care economy like the NDIS.

And when that Four Corners report came out, two more things happened; the national regulator was asked to provide us with advice on what further steps we need to take. And NSW commissioned their own review by a former Deputy Ombudsman of NSW, Chris Wheeler. He delivered his report that was released today that sets out a number of things that we could do better, including more information for parents and beefing up penalties. And Chris Wheeler, as well as the national regulator, Gabrielle Sinclair, will brief ministers on their reports tomorrow so that we can build a roadmap for further steps and more reform to make sure that we keep our kids safe in early education and care.

GILBERT: Yeah, indeed. And I know they're a minority, but yeah, just ensure the dodgy operators do receive the appropriate penalties. Well, that's good that that is a focus of that report. 

I do want to conclude though, on tertiary education, there’s been a big focus on the salaries of Vice-Chancellors and suggestions that you might end up putting it in the hands of the remuneration tribunal as opposed to leave it up to university boards. What's your thinking on that? Are you open to that?

CLARE: This is one of the things I've asked an expert council on university governance to look at. They're going to report to education ministers when we meet in October in a couple of months’ time. On its face, it makes sense to me when you think about it when it comes to politicians or judges or public servants, the remuneration tribunal plays a role in setting salaries there. So, it is the sort of thing that does make sense on its face. But we'll wait to see what this expert panel recommends. We've asked them to look at that, as well as wage theft in our universities and ways to improve governance of our universities, full stop. You know, our universities do terrific work and this is all about setting them up..

GILBERT: But it's a way to ensure Vice-Chancellors pay doesn't get out of hand.

CLARE: I think that's right. It's about meeting community expectations. But it's just one part of improving the governance of our universities and to be fair to the leaders of our universities I think they get that, and they're leaning into this reform to make sure that we're setting our universities up for the future.

We've got data that we released yesterday that showed some good news that there are more Aussie students starting a degree at university this year than ever before when you take out those two COVID years, which are a bit of an anomaly. We think that we're going to need more people in the years ahead to finish school and go to TAFE or go to university. So, more people going to university means universities are going to be even more important in the years ahead than they are today, and we've got to make sure that they're fit for the future.

GILBERT: Education Minister Jason Clare, thanks for making the time ahead of that important roundtable tomorrow with your colleagues. Appreciate it.

CLARE: No worries. Thank you.