Doorstop - University of Technology Sydney

KATHLEEN BAIRD, HEAD OF SCHOOL OF NURSING AND MIDWIFERY: Good morning, everyone. Firstly, I’d like to acknowledge the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation on whose land UTS stands. And I welcome you all to UTS. I’m Kathy Baird, Professor Kathy Baird, and I’m the Head of the School of Nursing and Midwifery. It is an absolute honour to welcome the Minister for Education, the Honourable Jason Clare, to UTS this morning.

I do also want to acknowledge the Commonwealth’s ongoing support through the placement payment for our student nurses and midwives. This initiative will provide much-needed financial support to our students during their clinical placements. It will help to ease the burden they face while they gain the practical skills required. Their dedication, resilience and compassion are the foundation of the future of nursing [indistinct] will be built.

I’d also like to thank the students that came here this morning. And I would like to hand over to Minister Clare. Thank you.

JASON CLARE, MINISTER FOR EDUCATION: Thanks very much. And a big thank you to UTS for letting me visit today to talk about something which is dear to my heart and I think is going to be really important in supporting the teachers and nurses and midwives and social workers that are training in our universities now that are getting an education in our universities right now to help them with their studies, with the cost of living while they’re studying, and help them to complete their degree.

When I got this job a couple of years ago, I remember talking to some nursing students who talked to me about placement poverty. It was something that I hadn’t heard of before. Now I understand. And it’s because of the stories that they told me. There’s a lot of nursing students who work in our hospitals right now as assistants in nursing, and it’s a part-time job where they’re getting paid to work in a hospital while they’re studying here at university. But a big part of their degree is also prac, practical training. And it’s something like 800 hours of practical training that they have to do as part of their degree.

And often that prac will happen at the same hospital where they’ve got a part-time job, but while they’re doing their prac, they can’t do that job. So, they’re working in the same hospital, but they’re no longer being paid. And that’s what placement poverty looks like. It means that you don’t have the money that you ordinarily would have to pay the bills, to pay for parking, pay for public transport. And it can make life harder.

The end result of that is that some students who start a degree, like nursing or teaching, don’t finish it. For some students, prac also means you have to move away from home to do it. And that can make life more difficult as well. It can mean giving up your part-time job because you’re not living around the corner while you’re doing the practical training.

This was a key recommendation of the Universities Accord, which is a big report. It’s a blueprint for how we reform higher education in Australia over the next decade and the decade after that. And I released that report early last year, and at the budget last year, I announced that we’d allocate almost over a half a billion dollars to fund paid prac. I think I was here to talk about that then. And it’s terrific to be back at UTS on the week that it starts, where we’re bringing the words from that report to life and making it real. And, most importantly, making a difference to the sort of people I got to meet today.

This applies to teaching students, to nursing students, to midwifery students and social work students. These are some of the most important professions in our country. These are young people who one day will teach our kids or look after us when we’re sick, who will help women giving birth, who'll help women fleeing domestic violence. And this is a bit of practical help while you do your practical training.

Can I just pass over to Dorsa who I got the privilege to meet this morning, who’s a third-year midwifery student here at UTS, to tell your story about what drew you to midwifery and how you think this payment might help.

DORSA NEMATIAN: Thank you so much, Minister Clare. So I am a refugee from Iran who has been doing a midwifery course for the past three years. I started off with a degree in Bachelor of Medical Science, which helped made me realise that it wasn’t for me, and I was more drawn to midwifery and childbirth, which is the reason why I made the switch. Obviously, this Commonwealth Prac Payment will make the difference between surviving through the practical part of our degree to just enjoying it and being able to learn while we’re undertaking our practice.

JOURNALIST: So there has been a huge slump in the number of students on youth allowance, and experts are warning that we may not meet our tertiary education targets if low-education and regional students aren’t going to uni. Would you consider raising the rate of those payments or loosening eligibility requirements?

CLARE: We’ve already increased youth allowance as well as rental assistance. You are right that what we do need to do over the next decade and beyond is help more young people finish school and then go on to TAFE or university to get the qualifications that the jobs that are in demand now and that are going to be in even more demand in the decades ahead. There’s no part of the economy where jobs are growing faster than in nursing and in health care. That’s for sure.

Yesterday I formally announced the creation of the Australian Tertiary Education Commission in its interim reform, and it kicked off yesterday, headed up by Professor Mary O’Kane, who is the author or the lead author of the Universities Accord. And she makes the point there that we’re not going to have the workforce that we need – something like four out of five workers in the economy with a university degree or a TAFE qualification – unless we break down that barrier that stops a lot of young people, particularly from disadvantaged backgrounds, from poorer backgrounds and from the regions and the bush, from getting a crack at university in the first place and then going on and finishing their degree.

And that’s why the prac payment is part of this. It’s definitely part of it, support for people while they do their practical training, but it’s not the only thing that we’re doing. Next year, you’ll see the rollout of funding reform for the way our universities are funded. And, in particular, funding reform to help the sort of people that you mentioned in your question, people from disadvantaged backgrounds. And part of that is developing and rolling out a needs-based funding system a little like the Gonski model for schools for universities.

JOURNALIST: What do you think that slump is due to?

CLARE: We’ve seen over the course of this year and last year an increase in the total number of young people enrolling in courses at university. That’s a good sign. The number of people going to university, the number of Australians going to university, has been in decline pretty much since 2017. There was a bump during COVID. That was a bit of an anomaly where people were locked at home and enrolled in courses. But overall, we’ve seen a decline in the number of Aussies enrolling in uni degrees until last year when it jumped up, and now it’s jumping up again this year. It’s on track to be the highest number of Australians enrolling in either an undergraduate degree or a postgraduate degree on record. So that’s a good thing.

As I say, it’s not just people leaping out of school to study at university; it’s also people going back to uni to reskill, to upskill, get more skills. So that’s a good sign. But the Universities Accord is about building on that and what more we need to do it to support more people into university and into TAFE. I mentioned the funding reforms that will take place next year. Another part of it is making sure that TAFE and university work better together. We shouldn't see them as two separate systems; we should be thinking about how they can be more joined up or integrated, how some of what you do at TAFE can be counted when you go to university and vice versa.

We were having a chat, Dorsa mentioned that she did another course before she went into midwifery. Some of that is counted towards this course. That means that the degree is shorter than it otherwise would be, and costs less. But that’s a good example of what we can do more of here.

In terms of helping people with the cost of higher education, the best example I can really point to is the cut to HECS that I’ll introduce into the Parliament in the next few weeks. The first bill that we’ll introduce into the Parliament will cut the student debt for 3 million Australians by 20 per cent. This will cut $16 billion dollars off the debt of ordinary Aussies. For the average Australian, it will cut their debt by more than five and a half grand. And that’s a big deal that will make a big difference.

JOURNALIST: Do you want to move into child care now?

CLARE: I’ll just make some comments off the top. Any Australian who heard the news from Victoria yesterday would be sickened by what they heard. And for every parent that is directly affected by this in Victoria, they would be frightened and they’d be angry. They would be bloody angry. And I know that they’re angry because one of those parents is a friend of mine, and her two little girls are directly affected by this. And I won’t tell you what she told me last night because you can’t repeat it on television. But she’s right to be mad. I’m mad. I think anyone who works in the early education system, and there’s hundreds of thousands of fantastic people who do, would be angry today as well. And my friend is mad because of all of the stress and the trauma and the crap that she and her girls are going to have to go through in the weeks ahead.

This is serious, and it requires serious action. I was informed about this by the Victorian Government a little over a week ago. It’s one of the reasons why I put this on the top of the agenda when Education Ministers met last week. Let me be clear, when Education Ministers met to discuss child safety last week, we didn’t discuss this case, but we discussed what are the next steps that we need to take as a nation to make sure that our kids are safe in early education and care.

There are things that we’ve already done. We’ve banned the use of personal mobile phones and devices in child care centres, and we did that for a reason. We’ve also changed the rules around mandatory reporting from seven days to 24 hours where there are complaints about sexual or physical abuse. I’ve got to tell you, we did that for a reason.

And there are other things that are also underway. I mentioned yesterday and again this morning the legislation that I’ll bring to the Parliament which is about making sure that if services aren’t up to scratch, that they aren’t meeting the safety and the quality standards that we expect as a country, that we have the power as a Government to cut their funding off. And that’s important, too, because there’s nothing more important than the safety of our kids in early education and care.

And there’s more to do. That’s what the meeting of Education Ministers on Friday was all about. We’ve seen the awful revelations out of the Four Corners investigation led by Adele Ferguson only a couple of months ago, and the Wheeler Report that was released last Thursday. Ministers had the opportunity at that meeting to be briefed by Chris, to be briefed by Mr Wheeler, and to go through his recommendations. But we were also briefed by Gabrielle Sinclair, who’s the head of ACECQA, about the actions she recommends we take in the light of the Four Corners investigation. And now Ministers are working together on a package of further reforms that are needed to make sure that our early education and care centres are as safe as they need to be.

JOURNALIST: Minister, on that legislation you’re planning to introduce, how serious would a breach have to be for a centre to have their funding cut? What sort of threshold are we talking about?

CLARE: All of that will be set out in the legislation that we’re working on right now. I mentioned to David on RN this morning that I’ve directed my Department to get that legislation drafted as quick as possible. It will deal with a number of things. As we announced back in March when we announced our intention to legislate in this area, it’s about that, it’s about cutting off funding to centres where there’s egregious behaviour by a centre. It’s also about stopping them from getting permission to expand and open other centres. But not just that; it’s also about stopping a provider or an employee who works in a centre who’s been found to be a bad actor from moving out of the child care sector into another part of the care economy, for example, in the NDIS. And we saw examples of that in the Four Corners investigation.

JOURNALIST: Do you think there should be a tougher background checking process for those who have a working with children check?

CLARE: I said this morning that it’s taken too long to do the work necessary to make sure that our working with children check system is up to scratch. And I’ve spoken a number of times with the Attorney-General, Michelle Rowland, the new Attorney-General, and I think I can safely speak on her behalf that she agrees and is determined to take the action necessary here to make sure that our working with children checks across the nation are up to scratch. That will be something that will be discussed by Attorneys-General when they meet next month. The Attorney-General is doing a press conference at the moment, and she’ll have more to say on that.

The only other point I would make on working with children checks is that they’re not the only thing that we need to fix or reform. They’re not a silver bullet. There are too many examples where a perpetrator is eventually caught and arrested and sentenced. They’re somebody that got a working with children check because they had no prior criminal record. And so it’s only one of the things that we need to focus on here if we’re serious about making sure that we keep our kids

JOURNALIST: You mentioned you wanted those – that legislation through as fast as possible. Can we expect to see these changes made this year?

CLARE: Yes.

JOURNALIST: Do you – the National Children’s Commissioner says the sector’s regulators need to be stronger, need more teeth to act. Has the government been slow to respond to these calls?

CLARE: You can never be fast enough here. And the honest answer is the work here will never be done. There will always be bad people that try and break through the system and the safety. And so the work here will never be done. But what the Commissioner is talking about there are one of the things that Ministers are focused on and looking at right now.

JOURNALIST: So will the Government make nationally harmonised working with children checks a priority? So those were recommended in 2015. How complicated will they be to enact, and why hasn’t it been done yet?

CLARE: Similar answer to the one I gave just a moment ago. And the Attorney-General will be able to speak to that in more detail. But this is one of the things that Attorneys are looking at when they meet next month. They’re looking at what you described as harmonisation or mutual recognition, the sharing of information across borders, but also potentially near real-time updates to working with children checks, where criminal record checks or criminal records change. There’s a big piece of work that’s going on nationally with all the states and territories here. But as you rightly point out, the work can’t happen soon enough.

JOURNALIST: Would you support the introduction of mandatory CCTV in child care centres?

CLARE: CCTV itself was the subject of a recommendation by Chris Wheeler in his report that was handed down on Thursday. And that recommendation was about installing CCTV in centres where there has been previous breaches, where there is concern by the regulator about safety and quality in those centres. The New South Wales Government has given in-principle support for that recommendation. The Victorian Government I think, will have more to say about that today. And this is one of the things that Ministers are looking at across the board as we develop nationwide reforms. That’s different, though, to the question you asked about making it mandatory. The advice from experts at the moment is targeted based on centres which have demonstrated that they’re not up to scratch.

JOURNALIST: The Victorian Greens have been calling for a royal commission into the sector. Do you – would you support that?

CLARE: We’ve had a royal commission. We’ve got the recommendations. After Australia’s worst paedophile was arrested and convicted in Queensland just over two years ago, I commissioned a review into child safety. We’ve got those recommendations as well. Now we’ve got the Wheeler Report. We’ll get more evidence and more information out of what the Victorian Government is announcing today. We know what we need to do. It’s how we do it and how we pull all of that together and get the whole country acting as one.

Okay, thanks very much, everybody.