Interview - ABC Radio Sydney Breakfast

CRAIG REUCASSEL, HOST: Dr. Anne Aly is the Minister for Early Childhood Education. She joins us now. Morning, Minister.

MINISTER ANNE ALY: Good morning, Craig.

REUCASSEL: Do you understand Kirsten's frustration with the way this pay rise works?

ALY: I do. I understand that for smaller organisations, smaller early childhood education centres, this can be quite an arduous task, which is why we've included $10 million for the sector to help them navigate the process. So, there's $10 million out there. I heard that Kirsten's looking at paying $4,500. That's one option. There are a whole range of other options as well, and I would encourage her and the committee to contact the Department and they can steer them in the right direction of where they can get the assistance for applying for that grant.

REUCASSEL: So, my understanding is that this is - my understanding is that $4,500 is an industry organisation that's linked and has been actually directed through the department. Are there free options here or is there always some kind of payment required by - I think this is a small centre of about 40 children, so, you know, it's not a large one.

ALY: No, you're right. But there are other options and I'd encourage them to contact the Department and have a look at some other options. I did just want to address the issue of it being a grant. Grants are a very normal way for the government to distribute funding. This is a $3.6 billion investment into the sector and the reason that it was done as a grant is to ensure that accountability, to ensure that the money goes into the pockets of that critical early childhood education workforce sector and that it is done efficiently and with accountability and with transparency.

REUCASSEL: Yeah, I understand the efficiency and making it transparent and making sure that we're aware it's going to the right people is very important. But as you say a big part of it was getting into the pockets of the early childhood educators. What proportion of early childhood educators have received this grant at this date?

ALY: So, right now, at this date, over 50 per cent of services have applied. Now that's 50 per cent of services have applied in two months. I think that's pretty good tracking when you look at it in that way. There are around 31,000 - we estimate around 31,000 workers have received that pay rise.

REUCASSEL: Okay. Now in terms of this, if Kirsten's organisation is slow at getting this done, you know, because they're a small, you know, community run, not-for-profit, just say they get it in six months’ time. Do the workers get paid back for that six-month time? Is there retrospective?

ALY: Absolutely, absolutely. You know, recognising that for some smaller organisations that perhaps don't have agreements in place, that is why we backdated the grant. So, they've got right up until the end of this financial year to apply. And if they apply before the end of this financial year, every single worker that they have at their centre will get their pay backdated to December 1st of last year.

REUCASSEL: Kirsten's other frustration with this was she said, here's the kicker, it's going to end in two years. Are we going to see child care workers at the end of two years basically getting a 10 to 15 per cent pay cut?

ALY: Well, let me tell you why we did it in this way, Craig, because there is a rationale to it. Okay. So, one of the first things that we did in government was we introduced legislation. Tony Burke, the relevant Minister, introduced legislation to the Fair Work Commission that enabled them to undertake what's called gender under evaluation decisions. Right now, with the Fair Work Commission, there is a gender under evaluation process in place that will determine what is a fair and just increase to the award wage of early childhood educators. That process is going to take two years, which means that it will be sometime in the middle of next year. We recognise that there is a workforce crisis, that families and children and parents are missing out of early childhood education and care because of worker retention. That is why this grant is called a worker retention grant. So, we decided we would fund a wage increase for two years through a grant process, which is a normal way of getting government money out, until the Fair Work Commission can make this determination with its gender under evaluation case.

REUCASSEL: Ok, so I understand. So, you're hoping that the Fair Work's gender under evaluation survey comes in place before the end of this two years, and therefore the wages are increased so that there's not a sudden drop there. Do you think you were clear enough when you were setting this out at the beginning, because one of Kirsten's complaints, and to be honest, maybe this is a criticism of the media, not necessarily of the government, was that they had no idea. This wasn't how it was presented. It was presented, hey, there's this pay rise coming for child care workers, you know, as if it's just going to appear in their pay. And it didn't necessarily suggest the problems. I mean, I look at the press release that was put out by yourself and the Honourable Jason Clare when this came out. It talked about this being phased in over two years. It didn't necessarily say it was ending in two years. I must admit it didn't give the impression of what was behind this.

ALY: Well, you know, to be honest, I can't control how the media reports the announcements that we make. I know -

REUCASSEL: No, but as I said, I'm talking about your press release. Your press release also was fairly misleading.

ALY: There are a couple of -there are quite a few press releases out there as well as information on the Department website. I know that in every media interview that I've done, I've explained that it's a two-year grant, that every interview that Jason Clare has done, he's explained that it's a two year grant and every statement that the Prime Minister has made has explained that it is a two year grant. It is called a worker retention payment for a reason, because it is specifically to retain that critical workforce with the understanding that there is a current case before the Fair Work Commission that will take two years to work through.

REUCASSEL: Yesterday when we discussed this, Georgie Dent from the Parenthood called in and said that it has been successful in actually retaining workers or getting workers. Has it kept workers in the early childhood sector? Has it overcome the kind of shortage there?

ALY: Well, as Georgie said, there's been a 22 per cent drop in job vacancies in the early childhood education care sector. Now, in the time that I've been the Minister for Early Childhood Education and Care, every single centre that I went and visited had vacancies. To see a 22 per cent drop in vacancies since the announcement of the wage increase is pretty phenomenal. So, it is doing what it was intended to do.

REUCASSEL: Thank you for speaking to us, Minister. I think I understand it more. We'll see whether it's calmed Kirsten down, despite the amount of paperwork that has to be done at this point. But thanks for at least explaining it. And I do want to check in maybe at the end of this process. I want to find out how many child care centres have managed to do the application because, you know, we want it to be 100 per cent. This is meant to be getting to all child care workers, not just some.

ALY: Absolutely. And that's our intention, that every single worker who does this vital work deserves this pay rise.

REUCASSEL: Alright. Thanks for speaking to us. Anne Aly is the Federal Minister for Early Childhood Education there.