Interview - ABC Radio National

PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese says the government's planned changes to child care will deliver the basis of a world class early education system, opening an early education and early election battleground.

The plan will see parents receive child care subsidies for three days a week regardless of whether they work or not, while $1 billion will be put into building new centres in places where the market has failed.

But the Coalition has been quick to signal its opposition, warning the plan would increase demand on an already strained sector.

Anne Aly is the Federal Minister for Early Childhood Education and our guest this morning. Welcome to the program.

MINISTER ANNE ALY: Thank you, Patricia, wonderful to be with you.

KARVELAS: The government is talking a big game on child care. The Prime Minister says this is a nation defining journey. Is this just the first step of what we will see in terms of announcements around child care as you try and get a second term?

ALY: Well, we've already made a number of changes to early childhood education, and you'll recall that one of our biggest election commitments coming into government in 2022 was an increase to the Child Care Subsidy, bringing the costs, out of pocket costs for parents and families down.

So I would say, you know, that was the first signal of reform, and since then the Prime Minister has said time and time again of his commitment, spoken of his commitment to an universal early learning system in Australia in the vein of, you know, those great Labor traditions of universal healthcare and superannuation and the NDIS.

So we've got the Child Care Subsidy, an increase to the Child Care Subsidy, which brought the out of pocket costs for families down, dealing with the affordability piece, we've done the workforce piece, or made some significant progress towards having that strong and stable workforce, increasing the wages of early childhood educators and workers, and, you know, 125,000 early childhood educators in training at the moment as well.

The next step is what the Prime Minister announced: let's fix the supply. We know that there are parts of Australia where children have no access to early childhood education and care, because the market doesn't go there, either because it's too expensive to deliver a service there, not attractive for the market to deliver a service there, and so that's what we said we're going to do and we're come in and we're going to whether centres and we're going to build services where children need them.

KARVELAS: I'm so interested in what that will look like as a model. Have you got a plan for that? Are these going to be government – is it like state education? I mean your public school is government owned and run; is that the same thing?

ALY: Well, half of the – so the billion dollars, and half of that is going to be in the form of grants, and those grants can go to local councils, they can go to state, they can go to, you know, not for profits to help grow that sector that way, and they might be located on school grounds, they might be located in hubs where there's access to other kinds of services that families need, like, you know, maternal health or child health.

The second part of that, the other half of that billion dollars will be government owned and leased. So, we're looking at a business case for that, that will be the first step of that, what's the business case and what does that look like to have a government owned one.

KARVELAS: And you're looking at a government owned one. Could that begin a pathway for having state - like government funded child care eventually, beyond just areas where there's market failure?

ALY: Well, look, we already have government funded child care in the form of the subsidy.

KARVELAS: Yeah, you've got government support to parents.

ALY: Yeah.

KARVELAS: It's different though to how you access a state school.

ALY: Yeah. Are you thinking like government run services?

KARVELAS: Yeah, I'm thinking the way I can turn up tomorrow to a state school and enrol my child, right?

ALY: Yeah.

KARVELAS: And not get charged.

ALY: Oh, look, we're looking at the business case for that; what is the role of, you know, the government, if we build a service, you know, what's our role beyond building the service, and that's what that business case will look at. I don't want to pre empt anything there, and what that might look like.

I think the most important point to make though is that we know that the market has failed, like, you know, there's some really great operators out there, Patricia, but the market has just failed. You know, I can walk one kilometre either way from my house and I will have five early childhood education centres within this very close vicinity of my house, but you'll go to some places, and I've heard from regional councils, and I've spoken to all the regional councils and all the rural councils, and they have no early learning, they cannot attract services to their areas.

KARVELAS: Yeah, I think it is a big problem. I want to change the topic, if we can, Minister. The ABC's 7.30 program has investigated a support scheme for kids with disabilities which was found to have numerous concerns dating back eight years.

A day after the investigation aired you referred it to the Auditor General. Why did it take an ABC investigation to prompt that?

ALY: Look, I think, so that investigation looked at what we call the Inclusion Support Program. It's a program that was set up by the previous Liberal government to ensure that children with disabilities or children with special needs are included in early childhood education and care.

After the program, I did refer the program to the Auditor General, because what the program highlighted was that the reporting of the money that was spent on the Inclusion Support Program was an issue of concern, and it was confusing.

Subsequent to that, it has been referred to the Auditor General, and subsequent to that, we're looking at how that money is being reported.

KARVELAS: If you're just tuning in, this is ABC Radio National Breakfast, and the Minister for Early Childhood Education Anne Aly is our guest this Thursday morning.

Let's just turn to this other issue that's taking hold, I think, in disturbing ways. We just heard from the Australian Federal Police a moment ago. You've been a long-time advocate for social cohesion and making our multicultural fabric thrive.

ALY: M'mm.

KARVELAS: What's happening in Australia, what are we seeing?

ALY: Oh, gosh, Patricia. It really is disturbing, isn't it? Like I don't know, I just   I just shake my head really. I mean this is   this is really   and it just   to me, and I know like to many members of the Muslim community and other faith minorities and other groups across the years have been targeted in one way or another.

It just feels like now it's just another group that's being targeted, and it's just   it's really sad, because we have to be vigilant, and we have to work hard on our social harmony, we have to work hard on our social cohesion in this country, and so, you know, when you see these spikes of violence against particular groups, it really makes you feel like you're taking, you know, two steps forward, three steps back.

KARVELAS: The government has been criticised for always referring to Islamophobia when it talks about antisemitism. I feel like in the last couple of days, we're hearing just about antisemitism from the government. Do you agree that at the moment there is a particular and acute problem with antisemitism?

ALY: I've spoken to my local Jewish community here, and they've told me how unsafe they feel. They've told me, and recounted to me, some of the incidents that their members have experienced that make them feel unsafe.

Look, I know that there is Islamophobia, there's an Islamophobia Register that documents Islamophobia as well, but I have to say I have never before heard from my local Jewish community the level of incidents that they're feeling at the moment and that they're experiencing at the moment and the level of   the fear and unsafety that they're experiencing at the moment.

KARVELAS: And I'm seeing a lot of justification for it, I'll be honest, I'm seeing it    

ALY: Oh, so much.

KARVELAS: What's the why? I've noticed on the text line.

ALY: So much, Patricia.

KARVELAS: But they're just being anti Israel. "Why are you wanting to stop this, why?"  

ALY: Oh, my God.

KARVELAS: Why are they saying that?  

ALY: I know. I know. And this is something that I've seen as well on social media, and you know what it reminds me of, Patricia, it reminds me of after Christchurch when all of the community came together and stood behind the Muslim community and reached out a hand to the Muslim community and said, "We're here with you" and there were some people on social media who said, "Oh, well, that's just retaliation for 911, oh, well, it's just retaliation for ISIS, oh, well, it's just retaliation for Al Qaeda". It's playing out again.

And you know, when it happened to the Muslim community, it hurt us. I remember it, and I remember it so vividly and so starkly, and I would say to people, to all people, remember those times, remember those times, but also remember how the community came together after Christchurch. Remember that there is strength in community, remember there is strength in reaching out to each other and reaching a hand out to each other, and together we can overcome this.

KARVELAS: Anne Aly, just very briefly, Australia will join several other countries in an emergency session of the UN to vote for a resolution which will demand Israel reverse its ban on the Palestinian aid agency UNRWA, also other motions too. Why are we doing this?

ALY: I think we need to. I think, you know, we need to find a resolution and a pathway to peace in the Middle East, and particularly in Israel and Gaza, for the safety of Palestinians and for the safety and the security and the future of Israelis as well.

KARVELAS: Okay.

ALY: We need to, as Australia has, continue to call for a return of the hostages and for a ceasefire.

KARVELAS: Anne Aly, look forward to speaking to you next year on TV. This will be the last radio interview for us, thank you.

ALY: Thanks Patricia, have a great holiday season and Christmas, if you celebrate, for you and all your listeners.

KARVELAS: Thank you. Anne Aly there.