Interview - ABC News Breakfast

BRIDGET BRENNAN, HOST: The Albanese government is set to force social media companies to pay for local news with an announcement on the News Bargaining Code expected today. Government Minister Anne Aly joins us now from Perth. Good morning, Anne, it is very early where you are.

MINISTER ANNE ALY: Indeed it is but it's a great morning anyway.

BRENNAN: Well, we're grateful for your time. Look, we'll get to the government's child care subsidy announcement in a moment because I know you've put a lot of work into that, but will the updated Code include financial penalties for breaches by the big tech companies?

ALY: We'll wait and see what the Minister announces with regard to the Code. What I can say is that the government believes that journalists should be fairly compensated for the work that they do, that there is a current regime in place but that's not working.

And so that's why the government has turned its attention to updating this Code and ensuring that social media companies pay for the news that they use as content on their platforms.

BRENNAN: Are you concerned that big tech companies could call that bluff and just remove news from those platforms, from those third-party platforms where a lot of Australians access their news and current affairs now?

ALY: Well, I think, you know, they have, as I recall, they have kind of threatened to do that before. But it is a big part of what they do. A lot of Australians now get a lot of their news from social media so it's become part of their kind of business model, if you like, and, you know, news organisations and journalists should be fairly compensated for the work that they produce.

BRENNAN: Let's get to your portfolio now, and that is the announcement you've made on child care if you win the next election. How transformative could it be to take away the activity test? Because at the moment you do hear parents say, "Well, I have to make a choice between child care or going to work because either I just can't access it, or the activity test precludes me from accessing child care".  

ALY: Well, let me start by saying all the research, all the evidence that we have over decades demonstrates that early childhood education and care is absolutely, absolutely transformative in a child's life. Those first five years of a child's life when their brain is   90 per cent of their brain – is developing, where they have access to good quality learning through play, where they have access to good quality care and education, they end up doing better. They end up doing better at school and right through, right through adolescence and right through to adulthood. So the evidence is there.

We know how important and just how vital early childhood education and care is for a child's development, good early childhood education and care is for a child's development.

These changes that we're making to the activity test where we're replacing them with a three-day guarantee is in response to the Productivity Commission's review, where they said, you know, every child should have access to three days a week of quality early childhood education and care. But it means an investment in Australia's future and what better investment than investing in our littlest Australians.

BRENNAN: Some families say the subsidy they get is just a drop in the ocean. What ultimately is your plan for the subsidy? Because there are strong recommendations that there should be a low fee for all that moves towards a universal child care system. Is that the goal of the Albanese government if you get re-elected?

ALY: Well, when we talk about universal early childhood education and care there are several components to that, and several things that we need to do. One of them is fixing the workforce issue, which is what we've done and what we've done significant work towards. That's through the 15 per cent pay increase to early childhood educators and workers, and through our fee-free TAFE and we’ve seen 125,000 new early childhood educators in training at the moment. There are 30,000 or 34,000, sorry, more early childhood educators since when we first took Office. That's the first part of it.

The second part of it is supply. The fact is that not all children have access to early childhood education and care. In the rural and regional areas, some children don't have any access to it. In some of the vulnerable cohorts, they don't have access either.

The third part of it is affordability. Now, part of that is what we did when we first came into Office by reducing the   sorry, increasing the child care subsidy and that reduced out of pocket costs for families.

But there is more work to be done on that and so another part of the announcement that we made yesterday was what we're calling the service delivery price, and that's really a deep dive into what is the cost of providing early childhood education and care in different contexts. Because it costs more to provide a service in a rural regional area or to a vulnerable cohort than it does to other cohorts, but we don't know, we don't know what a reasonable cost is. So, we'll be doing that work as well. That work will then inform what we do around funding and affordability.

BRENNAN: Anne Aly, in a previous life you were very passionate about combatting violent extremism. Does it worry you that there is a perception, a growing perception it appears to be, in the Jewish community that the government hasn't taken antisemitism seriously enough, and that that has led to the enabling of the kinds of attacks we've seen in the past few weeks?

ALY: Not just in a previous life. You know, as a person of Islamic faith, from a faith minority myself I feel very strongly about everybody should be able to live in safety and without fear in Australia.

I believe very strongly in social cohesion as an essential part of the glue that brings us all together and makes Australia one of the most wonderful places in the world to live.

It does worry me; it does worry me that the Jewish community in Australia feels unsafe. It does worry me that the Jewish community in Australia has been the target of these attacks. I recall a time when my own faith community felt unsafe. I recall a time when my own faith community was attacked. And I also recall a time after the Christchurch bombings sorry, the Christchurch terrorist attack, that Australians came together and reached a hand out to Muslim Australians and said, "You can be safe here".  And I would hope that all Australians do the same for our Jewish community, that we respond in that same vein for our Jewish community here in Australia.

BRENNAN: Well said. The UN General Assembly, we're waiting on a draft resolution calling for an immediate and unconditional ceasefire in Gaza. We understand Australia will vote in favour of that motion. Is Australia's stance on Israel's actions in Gaza toughening?

ALY: Look, I think there has been a shift but there has also been a shift in the context in which the Israeli government is operating, and I think the shift has been necessitated by the fact that the Israeli government has been found guilty by the International Court of Justice, by the declarations that have been made by the ICC as well, and Australia as a good global citizen, as a signatory to the ICJ and to the ICC must uphold the laws, the International Laws and the international rules of warfare that we are signatories to.

If Israel flouts, if the Israeli government flouts those laws, then we have a responsibility to act accordingly.

BRENNAN: And do you understand, or have you heard the view from the Coalition that those actions have led to increased antisemitism and anti-Israel sentiments in the community, particularly in areas where Jewish Australians live?

ALY: Well, I don't think there is any excuse for antisemitism. You know, I remember after 9/11 the attacks that were happening on Muslim communities and people were saying, "Oh well, it's retaliation for 9/11. It's because of what ISIS is doing or it's because of what al Qaeda is doing."

You know, Jewish Australians have nothing to do with the Israeli government. Jewish Australians have nothing to do with the actions of the Israeli government and I think, you know, conflating the two, conflating Jewish Australians with the actions of an Israeli government leads us down a very dangerous path, and I've been down that path. I've been down that path when Muslim Australians were being blamed for whatever ISIS or al Qaeda did.

So, I think we need to be very mindful of the fact that when we talk about Jewish Australians, we're talking about people who live here in this country, who have nothing to do with what is happening in Israel and we need to separate the two issues and not conflate them.

BRENNAN: Thanks very much for your time, Anne, and I hope that you get a nap later.

ALY: Thank you so much. I'll try.

BRENNAN: Talk soon.