Transcript - ABC News Breakfast

MICHAEL ROWLAND: Lots of news around, including in the education space. The Federal Education Minister, in fact, is set to bring in legislation today to boost the Commonwealth's contribution to public schools.

The Education Minister himself Jason Clare joins us now. Minister, very good morning to you.

JASON CLARE, MINISTER FOR EDUCATION: G'day, mate.

ROWLAND: Funding in public schools is of course a joint federal/state responsibility. You're bringing the legislation in but, as you'd know, New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland and South Australia do not want a bar of it, saying the Commonwealth is short-changing them. You've got a problem here, haven't you?

CLARE: As you rightly point out, Michael, this is a joint responsibility and if we're going to fix this, if we're going to make sure that we fund our public schools properly, and I'm a product of public education and damn proud of it, then it's going to require all of us to work together here, the Commonwealth Government chipping in extra funding and I've got $16 billion of extra funding to do that, and the States and the Territories chipping in more as well.

WA's signed up, Tasmania's signed up, the Northern Territory's signed up as well, and what I'm saying is that if those States and Territories can chip in extra funding to make sure that we're funding the education of our children properly, then so can the other States and Territories and we'll continue to work with them to make sure that we get a better deal for our children.

But in order to do that I've also got to pass legislation through the Parliament to increase funding for public schools. At the moment I'm prohibited from providing more than 20 per cent of that funding level that David Gonski set all those years ago. And the legislation that I'm introducing into the Parliament today will turn that maximum into a minimum, or that ceiling into a floor, to enable that extra money to flow to our public schools. And it's not a blank cheque. What I'm also saying to the States and the Territories is we need to tie that funding to practical reforms that are going to help to turn around the drop in the number of young people finishing high school at the moment.

ROWLAND: New South Wales Education Minister Prue Car says your current offer leaves students in her state short changed by a $1,000 each, and all the other States that are holding out are saying despite what you're saying that they cannot provide more money. The Commonwealth has to step up. So where does this brinkmanship end?

CLARE: Once again I think it's a joint responsibility and if WA and Tassie and the NT can chip in, then so can the other States and Territories as well.

ROWLAND: But these are bigger states, more popular states with more students and they're saying that you're not doing enough as a Federal Government.

CLARE: And the challenge is the same. Here's the crux of it. Seven or eight years ago, 83 per cent of students in public schools were finishing high school. Now that's dropped to 73 per cent. Now if that's not a serious problem I don't know what is. And this is happening at a time where it's more important to finish school and then go on to TAFE or uni than it was when we were at school.

More and more jobs require you to finish school and then go to TAFE or to university, and if we're going to fix that, we've got to fix this funding gap, but we've also got to fix the education gap that exists in our system at the moment, where a lot of children from poor families and from the bush are in that category of children who are falling behind at school when they're little. Public schools do most of the heavy lifting there. So that's why I say that we've got to fix the funding. We've got $16 billion to do that, but we've got to tie that funding to things like catch up tutoring, where you identify a child in Year 1 through a phonics check or a numeracy check who might be falling behind, and then you get that child out of a classroom of 30 into a classroom of three or four, and we know that if you do it right that sort of catch up tutoring will mean that a child will learn as much in six months as they'd normally learn in 12 months. In other words, they catch up.

So money's important, but so is reform. There's some people out there that will say, "Look, it's just about money".  There's other people who'll say, "No, you don't need any money, it's just about reform".  The truth is you need both.

ROWLAND: Well the Premiers want more money. In fact we've got Chris Minns and Peter Malinauskas, the New South Wales and South Australian Premiers on this show in about 10 minutes' time. Briefly, what would you say to them?

CLARE: I'm not going to negotiate through the media.

ROWLAND: You're quite welcome to.

CLARE: They're both great blokes. You might want me to, but Chris and Peter are both great blokes, I've got a great relationship with both of them. They both understand how important this is, and I'll continue to work together with them to get this done.

ROWLAND: Okay. Former Labor Senator turned independent Fatima Payman as you know has formed her own political party called Australia's Voice. Are you worried that will take votes away from the Labor Party that she says has failed Australians at the next election?

CLARE: I don't take any vote for granted. I've had the privilege to represent my community in the Parliament now for almost 17 years and I never take it for granted. I know that I've got to work hard to earn the trust and support of my community every single day, and that's just as true across the country as it is in my local neck of the woods.

Everybody's entitled to run for Parliament if they want to. If they want to set up a political party, then that's great for them. But I'll always stand behind the Labor flag and fight to earn the votes of every person that I possibly can.

ROWLAND: Your community represents lots of   there are lots of Muslim Australians in your community in Western Sydney, Jason Clare. You have been outspoken in the past about what Israel has been up to in Gaza in terms of what you see as an unacceptable loss of civilian life. Do you agree with your Cabinet colleague Mark Butler who said on the October 7th anniversary that Israel has a right to defend itself?

CLARE: For my community this is a little bit different than for most of Australia. For most of Australia they see a war on the other side of the world. For my community, the people that we see images of dying on our TV screens are often family or friends, and they're asking for a little bit more compassion and a bit more understanding. They're asking for the killing to stop, for the slaughter to stop, for the starvation of children to stop. They're asking for a ceasefire and for the war to end and I don't think that's too much to ask.

ROWLAND: Do you believe Israel has a right to defend itself as your colleague says?

CLARE: Every country has a right to defend itself, but it also needs to comply with international law.

ROWLAND: Is Israel complying with international law?

CLARE: The bombing of schools and the bombing of hospitals I think are not complying with international law.

ROWLAND: Jason Clare, appreciate your time this morning, thank you.

CLARE: Thank you.