Interview - Sunrise

MONIQUE WRIGHT: For more on those fires and whether Australia could be ready if a similar situation happened here, let's bring in Education Minister Jason Clare and Deputy Opposition Leader Sussan Ley. Welcome to you both. Good to see you. Jason, we'll start with you. Look, we know how much bushfires are managed here, comes from the states, right. However, the federal politicians do have a hand in this. Are you going to now be putting pressure on the states to say, what's your plan and do we need to re-tweak things?

JASON CLARE, MINISTER FOR EDUCATION: That work's already happening. We're better prepared this year than ever. And that involves the Federal Government working with state governments and local authorities. It includes more helicopters as well as an air tanker to make sure that we've got the resources we need in the air and on the ground.

But these images are truly terrifying that we're seeing on our screens right now. Remember, it's winter in the US. We expect to see images of snowstorms, not firestorms. Aussies will be having flashbacks in their own minds about the fires five years ago and thinking, “could this happen here again?” But this is also a reminder, if we need reminding, that fires don't just happen in the bush or in the regions, they happen in the suburbs and the cities as well. And so it's a reminder for all of us that we need to make sure we do everything we can to make our homes as fire-safe as we can. And that includes checking the local websites with fire authorities about what we can do to better prepare.

WRIGHT: Ok, so the Federal Government is talking to each of the states to make sure that you are comfortable with, particularly with the water bombing aircraft. But what we saw in LA yesterday, the winds were so ferocious, hurricane force winds, 160 kilometres an hour, the aircraft couldn't get up. So, it's not just about that.

CLARE: And when it is up, you think, how do they stay in the air?

WRIGHT: So, when you say that we are better prepared than ever, what exactly does that mean?

CLARE: It involves training, it involves equipment, it involves simulation and preparation as well. So, you don't wait until fire season to be prepared for the fires. Right through the course of last year, there's been training and simulation and coordination done by federal authorities with state authorities to make sure that we do everything that we can. But this shows how fires do get out of control and how deadly and how devastating they can be.

WRIGHT: Sussan, if your government is elected, we know that the climate is getting hotter and that has also been part of the contributing factors for what happened in Los Angeles. What is your sort of plan then if you do get elected to rework what is happening to account for a hotter planet?

SUSSAN LEY: Mon, can I just say my heart breaks for the people of Los Angeles, Australia's second biggest city, a city of 18 million people. And just watching your reports, by the way, huge recognition for Isabel Mullins and your crew on the ground. For our American friends, this is just truly dreadful. Obviously a similar situation couldn't, couldn't happen in Australia. We don't have the Santa Ana winds, we don't have the same topography. But it is, as Jason says, a reminder that bushfires don't just happen in the bush. Jason lives in the suburbs of Sydney. I live where we've had fires five years ago in the NSW Murray and Murrumbidgee rivers. Now all of this work about planning, preparation, response is underway has been for many years. Down at my local airport just a couple of days ago, I watched the fire spotter plane go out into the impenetrable bush in the Upper Murray Fine fires. And then shortly after, you have the AG tractor fitted with floats, it scoops up water from Lake Hume, goes straight out there and puts out the fire before it gets out of control. It's just one small example of what is happening across the country. So, we should be very proud of our firefighters, our fire response and all the work that is being done in the background. I saw that as Environment Minister in the last government. This all is above politics.

WRIGHT: Yeah, it absolutely is. I'm glad neither of you went there. However, this next topic might not be. Sussan, we were interested to read your op-ed in The Nightly saying that kids are being pushed to go to university and end up getting degrees that they don't use and debt that they can't afford to repay. What's your argument here and what do you see that the government should be doing differently? What would you do differently?

LEY: I'm so tired of this attitude, Mon, that if you haven't made it to university, you haven't made it in life. I finished school at 18. My parents said you need to go to university. I said, no way. I want to do a skill; I want to do hands on. And I actually went to my local TAFE and I did my flying subjects and became a pilot and went to university much later in life. But when I travel the country and I see the amazing kids and the amazing abilities they have, that wouldn't cut it in a university but would really, really add to enterprise, entrepreneurship and what we should do in this country for a manufacturing and high-tech future. I know that we have to provide more incentives and promote the vocational pathway. This is not about TAFE versus non-TAFE. I know Jason may well say that. It's about every provider of vocational training recognising that getting those kids into those pathways is the way to go. And it starts in our schools. It starts in our schools. It even starts before Year 10.

WRIGHT: Alright, well, something that Sussan has written in this op-ed, Jason, is that over your first year in office, you’re Education Minister of course. So, from June 2022 to June 2023, skill shortages increased by 12.5%. Is that true?

CLARE: The truth is we need both. We need more people to go to TAFE and more people to go to university. More and more jobs that are going to be created in the years ahead are going to require people go to uni or to TAFE, and that'll include sometimes people doing a little bit of TAFE and a little bit of university.

At the moment, we've got six universities that are also TAFE providers and I think we'll see more of that. I'm trying to break down the barriers between TAFE and uni to make it easier for people to move between the two.

The real thing that keeps me up at night is that we're now seeing a decline in the number of kids finishing high school, particularly in public schools. We're not going to get more people to go to TAFE and become apprentices and get the skills we need unless we do something about that. The former Liberal government ripped the guts out of funding for schools and for TAFE. What we're saying is we need to invest in our schools, we need free TAFE, and we want to cut the cost of university degrees by 20%. And they're all things the Liberal Party oppose.

WRIGHT: OK, alright, we're out of time. Good to see you both. Jason Clare and Sussan Ley. Great to start 2025 with a lovely segment with you both. Thank you.