Interview - 6PR

GARY ADSHEAD: Federal Education Minister Jason Clare joins me on the line. Thanks very much for your time, Minister.

JASON CLARE, MINISTER FOR EDUCATION: G'day, Gary. Good to be here.

ADSHEAD: You've come with an increase in terms of the overall funding package for our schools. Tell us about it.

CLARE: This is a fantastic day for WA. In just under an hour's time, the Prime Minister and the Premier will sign an agreement that means that Western Australia will become the first state in the country to have fully funded public schools. That means funded at that level that David Gonski set all those years ago. Private schools are funded at that level now, but public schools, except for the ACT, aren't. And this agreement means an injection of about $1.6 billion over the next five years into public schools in WA.

ADSHEAD: And that, that gets us to that 100 per cent funding, doesn't it, between the two? Between State and Commonwealth?

CLARE: It does, it does. And it means that we'll get to that level in January 2026. So, just over twelve months away. But it's not a blank cheque. The money will be tied to real and practical reforms, and they're set out in the agreement that the Prime Minister and the Premier will sign today. Things like a phonics check for children in year one, a numeracy check for children in year one, or even kindy, just to identify children that are falling behind really early in literacy and numeracy. And then things like catch-up tutoring, where you get a child who's struggling out of a classroom of 25 or 30, put them in a classroom every day of the week or four days a week for 40 minutes at a time with one teacher and a couple of other children. And we know from the evidence, if you do that right, children who are falling behind in the classroom can learn as much in six months as they normally learn in twelve months. In other words, they catch up.

ADSHEAD: So, Minister, you know, obviously, NAPLAN, whenever that comes out, it's analysed and perhaps over-analysed in terms of what it means as to where our kids are going. So, in WA, the last NAPLAN results showed that around 30 per cent of WA students were scoring in the lowest two bands, and that meant that their issues around literacy and numeracy were a big problem. I mean, what's the measure of the success of this funding deal that we see today? What will be that measure?

CLARE: A couple of things. Most importantly, more children finishing high school. Over the last seven or eight years, we've seen a decline right across the country in the number of children finishing high school. Something like 85 per cent finished high school back seven or eight years ago. Now it's down to 79 per cent. In public schools, the drop is even more. And if you get the intervention right early in primary school and children do catch up, they’ve got a better chance of finishing high school. Those NAPLAN results, Gary, they show about one in ten children right across the country are in that lowest band, what we used to call below the minimum standard. But it's about one in three children from poor families and one in three children from the bush from regional areas that are in that band. That's why what I was talking about a moment ago is so important. Early identification of children who are falling behind when they're really little. And then that early intervention, the catch-up tutoring, so that the children who are falling behind catch up, because at the moment, this might shock people listening, but only one in five children who are below that minimum standard when they're eight years old have caught up by the time they're 15. In other words, most children never catch up. And that's what these reforms are all about.

ADSHEAD: Minister, just a couple of other things. I mean, I know that you've spoken a lot about the situation with the cap on university student numbers now limited to 270,000 next year. I mean, have you able, I mean, obviously you're hearing from the university saying this is going to be crippling for them. What do you say in response when they talk about having to sack staff and so on?

CLARE: For WA, it'll mean they'll be able to enrol 80 per cent more international students next year than they did before the pandemic. So, that's important.

ADSHEAD: 80 per cent more?

CLARE: 80 per cent more.

ADSHEAD: What are they whinging about now? I'm confused. Why are they whinging?

CLARE: Some universities are critical. To be fair, some universities are very happy. What this will mean is that across the board, not just for universities, but for vocational education providers who also educate international students, that the total number of students that can start a course next year will be about the same as it was before the pandemic. For universities, it'll be about the same next year as what it was last year.

But what's happened over the course of the first six months of this year is through a thing called Ministerial Direction 107, some universities have got more, others have got less, particularly regional universities. And so universities have come to me and said, look, set us a cap for next year, and that's a fairer way to manage this. And that's what this legislation and the caps I announced last week are all about. 

ADSHEAD: Just on one more. I spoke the other day to the Australian Primary School Principals Association. They were looking at- you might have seen the story. They were looking at a need for legislation to empower them to be able to make sure that disruptive parents, aggressive parents, those that might threaten, those that might be a problem for teachers and principals, can be kept off school grounds. Have we really got to that? The need for legislation?

CLARE: It's already in place, I think, in Victoria. So, the responsibility of states and some have taken the step of legislation. The bottom line is teachers and principals shouldn't have to cop some of the crap, to be honest, that they do cop. Not from most parents, but just from some extreme individuals. Our teachers and our principals deserve respect. They're educating our children. They're setting our children up for success. And the job of a teacher, the job of a principal, is tough enough without having to cop that sort of stuff.

ADSHEAD: Indeed, I think we agree on that. I think the approach of the Principals Association was to say that federally, could the Federal Government look at some sort of umbrella approach to this? What would you say? Or is it a state-by-state basis?

CLARE: What the Federal Government, what I try to do is, when I get together with Education Ministers across the country, is try to set best practice. So, we managed to get all the states to agree to ban mobile phones in public schools. We've also adopted a standard approach in dealing with vaping in schools as well. So, this is the sort of thing that I could raise with State Ministers and see whether we can get a better approach across the country.

ADSHEAD: Minister, thanks very much for joining us. You're in Perth at the moment. Appreciate you taking the time out to speak with us.

CLARE: No worries. Thanks mate.