Interview - 2GB Ben Fordham Live

BEN FORDHAM: Well, Peter Dutton has picked a fight with the Prime Minister. The Opposition Leader says he'll block the Federal Government's planned cap on international students. This was part of Albo's plan to curb net migration by limiting the number of overseas students. Labor's plan to cap foreign students at 270,000 has been slammed by the higher education sector because they're worried about job losses and the Coalition has seized on that. They say they won't be supporting the legislation because it's too little, too late. They say based on Labor's record so far, we have no confidence the government is capable of fixing its immigration mess. But isn't that what they're trying to do? They're trying to do something about the numbers of people coming into the country, including foreign students.

Jason Clare is the Federal Education Minister and he's on the line. Minister, good morning to you.

JASON CLARE, MINISTER FOR EDUCATION: G'day, Ben, how are you?

FORDHAM: This one took me by surprise. What about you?

CLARE: I reckon it's taken most of the country by surprise. I don't think anyone ever thought in their life they would see Peter Dutton get into bed with the Greens on immigration, but that's what's happened here. Peter Dutton in the biggest speech of his political life, the budget reply speech this year, said that if he became Prime Minister he'd put a cap on the number of international students that come into the country, and well, there's legislation to do just that in the Senate right now and they're going to vote against it. What do you draw from that? Other than that he lied to the Australian people. I can't help but think this just ruins his credibility whenever he says anything about immigration.

FORDHAM: Peter Dutton, in fact said that international students in Australia are the modern version of boat arrivals.

CLARE: That's right. You can't talk tough on immigration and now go soft on this. You can't beat your chest and pretend to be a tough guy on migration and then vote against legislation that would put a limit on the number of international students that come into the country every year. But that's, Ben, that's what's going to happen here. They seem more interested in playing politics than on limiting migration.

FORDHAM: Had you sought the Coalition's support before yesterday? Had you had discussions behind the scenes?

CLARE: All of that's been happening. You know, this has been in the Parliament now for over 180 days. We announced this before the Opposition said that they would even support this. And it's been through, I think, four Senate hearings. The Greens have said they're against it. Not surprised, but I thought the Liberals would see a bit of common-sense here. We've got 16 universities who wrote to me at the start of the year saying they want this. 70 per cent of Australian people when surveyed say they want to limit the number of international students that come into the country every year. Instead, the Liberals have decided to get into bed with the Greens to stop this.

FORDHAM: Yeah, Peter Dutton promised to reduce the excessive numbers of foreign students studying at metropolitan universities. As I said, he said it's the modern version of boat arrivals. Now he's saying that he's got his own policy. Do we know what's going to be in that?

CLARE: Zero. It's a little bit like his policy on nuclear reactors. Zero information. And just to understand what the legislation is that's in the Parliament, Ben, it gives the power to the Australian government to set a cap on the number of international students that come into the country every year. Now, you could set that at 200,000, you could set it at 100,000, you could set it at 0 if you want. What it does is it gives power to the government to control the number of students that come into the country every year. And Peter Dutton has decided that he's going to vote against that. Now, the cap that we want to put into place would be good for the regions, good for the bush. It would help to make sure there's more students from overseas that go to the regional unis rather than the big sandstone universities in our cities that Peter Dutton says he wants to help. Well, if he was serious, if he was honest, then he'd vote for this legislation.

FORDHAM: I can only imagine that Peter Dutton wants to cause you embarrassment.

CLARE: I think it's the reverse, mate, because we've got an election coming up in the next couple of months. Every time he wanders around the country and talks about immigration, pretends to be the tough guy in immigration, I'll just point back to this week where he voted against legislation to cap migration and that will show that he's a fraud, that you can't trust anything that he says on immigration or anything else, to be honest.

FORDHAM: Well, we know that he's had a history of being tough on this issue, but I can only imagine he's thinking, alright, well, this is going to be a disaster for the Albanese government and Jason Clare if they can't get this legislation up. They want to get it sorted before the end of the parliamentary term and that's probably not going to happen now. I've got messages already from people saying, 'what the hell? I thought Peter Dutton wanted to win the election'. Another one says here, 'overseas students will come to study and then they want to stay and they take jobs from Australians'. So, that's what he's up against.

CLARE: That’s exactly right. I think this pulls the rug out from under him and destroys his credibility on all of this. We have doubled the fees that we charge international students to apply for a visa to come here, and over the last four or five months, that's dropped the number of applications by 30 per cent. But putting a cap on the number of students that can come here in any given year is a good thing. Peter Dutton knows it's a good thing. He promised to do it if he won the next election, and now he's going to vote for the opposite and he's going to do it with the Greens. Now, did anybody listening to 2GB right now ever think that Peter Dutton would get into bed with Adam Bandt and vote for this, that they would have the same immigration policy? It's bizarre.

FORDHAM: Jason Clare is our guest, the Federal Education Minister. On the issue more broadly of immigration, do you agree that over the last decade, immigration has not benefited Australians as it had in the past?

CLARE: We’re a country built on migration, but it's got to be done at sustainable levels, Ben. And over the course of the last five years or so, you've seen zero migration when the borders were shut with COVID and then migration come back when the borders were open. Part of that, a big part of that, are these international students that come and study here in Australia. And what I'm saying here is that we need to put a cap on the number that come here every year so that the Australian Government can control that number. Peter Dutton obviously has the opposite view because he's going to vote against legislation to control the number of students that come here every year.

FORDHAM: I agree with you, a strange one. We appreciate you jumping on the line.

CLARE: Good on you, mate. Thanks.

FORDHAM: Jason Clare, the Federal Education Minister.