Interview - Sky News Politics Now

TOM CONNELL [CO - HOST]: Assistant Education Minister, Anthony Chisholm joins us now. I'm not sure if a meeting was had or a meeting will be had, there are some pretty fired up Labor Ministers out there. They say it's pretty simple. 75 per cent the states are getting to. Why won't the Commonwealth get to 25 per cent?

ANTHONY CHISHOLM [ASSISTANT MINISTER]: Looking forward to meeting with the Deputy Premiers of NSW and Victoria very shortly, Tom. We're obviously engaged in constructive discussions right across the sector. I know that the Northern Territory and Western Australian Governments have signed on. We're still working constructively with the other states and territories to achieve the result that we need to. The Federal Government have put extra money on the table to secure a deal. We'll continue to work with those other states to ensure that we get there. But at the end of the day, Minister Clare has been really clear about this. He wants to see a better outcome for students. That's what we're focused on. So, money is part of it, but also delivering a better deal so that this money glows in the dark and achieves better results is really --

CONNELL: Yeah, and everyone would want that, but the money also matters. That's according to Federal Labor. So, is there any reason the states are getting to their 75, you're not getting to your 25?

CHISHOLM: Well, we have put extra money on the table, Tom, and that's what we've done. And we think that the states should also put extra money on the table at the same time, so --

CONNELL: They are though, aren't they?

CHISHOLM: And so are we federally as well. We're continuing to engage in those discussions in good faith. But as I said, the money is one thing and it is important, there's no doubt about that, but those reforms and the NAPLAN results that we got last week goes to prove this, is that the reforms need to go to achieving better outcomes at the same time.

CONNELL: Yeah, WA's happy, as you alluded to. Well, the other states are saying, “Well, of course they are, they're getting sent huge sacks of money now from the Commonwealth under the GST deal.” Would you describe that deal as good policy?

CHISHOLM: The GST deal you're talking about, Tom, was obviously something that was agreed by the previous government that we've been supportive of as well. I also would note that the Northern Territory have put in extra money and that's a big commitment for them to make. The Northern Territory aren't as blessed as other states are when it comes to their financial situation, but it goes to show how important it is. You might have WA putting in extra, we've had the Northern Territory putting in extra as well. And that's what we want to work constructively with the states on. Always happy to meet with the ministers, as I am this afternoon, and we'll continue to work constructively together.

CAMERON REDDIN [CO – HOST]: On these university caps for students – the carrot, I suppose, of your approach is offering the universities a chance to exceed that cap if they build more accommodation for students that want to come in. Have you had any conversations or indications from the universities that have got a site in mind or that say, yeah, we will build more accommodation? Is that something that there's any appetite for?

CHISHOLM: I believe that there is. I was at the JCU Townsville campus recently and they've opened some student accommodation – I was lucky enough to open it a while ago. I also know that they're talking with other proponents to do that as well, so, that's one instance I'm aware of. We know that there is a need for student accommodation. We know how important that the international education sector is. Where those discussions again are ongoing with Vice-Chancellors and their organisations behind the scenes, it's really important that we restore integrity to the system, but we also know how important international student numbers are at the same time. I think we're getting that balance right behind the scenes in terms of those discussions and the Minister will have more to say on that shortly.

REDDIN: Are the universities right when they think 10 per cent of the workforce could have to be shed when these caps come in? That's their estimate. 14,000 jobs across the country.

CHISHOLM: Yeah, I understand, and I've seen some of those claims that they're making, and I meet with Vice-Chancellors regularly. What we're confident about is ensuring the long-term viability of the higher education sector. We know that international students are an important part of that. They are important to their financial situation, but they're also important in many regional towns for the workforce they provide at the same time. But we want to ensure that those international students are having a good education when they come here, and they go back and be ambassadors for us. So, they need to have a good experience. There's been a number of studies that have shown that that hasn't been the case. So, it's important that those people that do come have a good experience and we enhance the value of that international education.

REDDIN: So, they could be in the ballpark with 14,000 jobs to go.

CHISHOLM: I wouldn't put a number on it, but there’s – I understand that. But we're providing a lot of support for universities. We want to get this right because it is important, and we are confident that we are doing that work behind the scenes to give the universities the confidence they need to operate into the future.

TRUDY MCINTOSH [CO – HOST]: You've been around this place quite some time in the Senate. You can't get kicked out in there for disorderly conduct. But what's your view on the back and forth in the chamber? Is it misogynistic, as the Teals are claiming today?

CHISHOLM: Look, I'd like to think that the Senate on most occasions operates a bit differently. Obviously, no one's –

MCINTOSH: Quite a lot of screaming. 

CHISHOLM: No one has had a majority in the Senate or hasn't for a long time. When you think about the challenge we confront in the Senate, where the Labor Party are 25 of 76, so we need a lot of support to get there. What I try and do is lead by example. I try and be respectful of my colleagues, my staff and other people in the building. I encourage other people to do that. There obviously needed to be a lift in standard, so I think this report is an important part of that. And then obviously, we ultimately get judged by the Australian people. And that's the challenge when you're dealing with these issues, when it comes to Parliamentarians. I think that we can do more to lift standards. I think that this is an important report and an important process.

ANDREW CLENNELL [CO – HOST]: This is putting another judgement in there, not just the judgement of the Australian people. It’s saying some committee can fine members. It's another judgement, isn't it? 

CHISHOLM: Yeah, but it --

CLENNELL: It has its dangers.

CHISHOLM: It ultimately ends up with the Privileges Committee and then it's a matter for the Senate in terms of how it works, in terms of impact on members of Parliament. I think that's entirely appropriate still, because it does leave it in the hands of the Senate. And then I think it's up to us to lift those standards. There's no doubt that the Australian people want us to do better. Sometimes I'm sure they'd be watching on and they'd be appalled by the behaviour. As I said before, I try and lead by example. I don't always get that right. You want robust debate, but you want it to be done in a respectful way. I think that that's something that we should all strive to achieve.

CLENNELL: Do you think Andrew Giles regrets giving visitor visas to people out of Palestine?

CHISHOLM: No. That's obviously a very difficult situation that we're dealing with. It is effectively a war zone there. I'm unaware of what happened in Question Time in the Reps today. It wasn't a topic that was covered in the Senate. But ensuring that the safety of Australians is obviously the utmost importance for any government decision in regards to these areas, but we also want to ensure that we're doing the right thing as part of the international community as well.

CONNELL: Senator, appreciate your time. Thank you.

CHISHOLM: Thanks, Tom.